MindMeister updates: map out your ideas even faster

Cornelia Patscheider_is_Out-of-office · October 4

Hi @Mark Mosher , please follow the instructions here to add a hyperlink. This is still available and easy to use, but a little bit hidden now, unfortunately.

Tatsuhito Koya · October 4

I don't see the full screen option to enlarge the attached image anymore. The current workaround is the use of the browser's magnification option, but this is kludgy.

Mark Mosher · October 4

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11293#Comment_11293

Yes, I figured that out, but I'd also still like the ability to do this the old way before this update.

Mark Mosher · October 4

Can you please offer a setting to make these controls bigger. My old eyes can barely make out the icons. Thanks.

Gui. C. · October 5

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11183#Comment_11183

OH MY GOD IS NOT A BUG!!!!

MIND MEISTER TEAM. THIS WAS A SUPER IMPORTANT FEATURE. PLEASE TAKE IT BACK OR WILL LEAVE THE PLATFORM.

THE CHANGES OVERALL WERE USELESS

Gui. C. · October 5

This was a tremendous mistake, people could choose the layout, the org chart form was the default version, Why on earth would people complain about it???

Gui. C. · October 5

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11217#Comment_11217

One more thing: The maps inherited the last setting you created, so you cannot change old maps either way. They stuck at the last position before the update 🤦‍♂️

cambelle logan · October 5

Please revert to the old version. The combo of list and org chart is essential. I will have to switch to another mind map software if this is not fixed.

Somen Banerjee · October 5

Just to add my voice. A bit confused about which thread to use but this is what I put on a different thread about the loss of the ability to combine lists and organisational charts in a single map:

I am really disappointed to hear this feature is no longer supported. This has always been fundamental to my approach to using Mindmeister in a way that works for me. Sadly it means I might need to see if I can find another software solution that has the flexibility that I am looking for. Is there any likelihood that this option will be reintroduced?

Mindmeister has been so integral to my way of working for many years. Given what an excellent platform it has been for me I am taken aback at how a basic functionality that I am sure many of us use has been suddenly been removed. I am really unclear what problem this change is trying to fix?

I don't particularly want to spend time looking for another software platform given the investment I have made in using Mindmeister so it would be good to know if this issue has been heard and is being addressed.

Padraic Fogarty · October 5

While the new approach to access topic options does make it quicker and easier to access options, the communication of the changes has not been great. For example, the menu option to paste links has been removed. I had to do a lot of searching to find Mark Jack's post of 01 October with a solution to this problem. I find the new solution to be more efficient but would have appreciated if guidance was more accessible. The guidance on Using MindMeister has not been updated to reflect the recent changes.

It is also clear from recent posts that there are a number of other issues and bugs in the latest release that need to be addressed.

Tatsuhito Koya · October 5

I just found out the image alignment option is no longer available. I need this option back.

I feel this update really broke MindMeister's true strength. I always liked Mindmeister's minimalistic and non-intrusive user-interface design that allowed me to focus on what I needed to do most: brainstorming by mind mapping.

I use a different mind mapping tool whenever I need more flexible layout options. However, when it comes to creating pure mind maps, the other tool's user interface is not as good as MindMeister's (before this update). I could create mind maps as quickly as I brainstormed using MindMeister. With this update, I had to slow down because of its new intrusive interface and loss of previous features.

Instead of more visually appealing tools. I would rather like to see more support for Markdown syntaxes and more keyboard shortcuts to speed up my brainstorming process.

Jason Vidmar · October 7

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11217#Comment_11217

Agree 100% with all the comments here on the utility of supporting Org + List mixed layout styles (for master node and sub-nodes). This was also essential to my workflow, and without it, it is nearly impossible to create manageable mindmaps that represent both wide and dense information (which was a key feature anchoring me to MindMeister all these years).

Jason Vidmar · October 7

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11266#Comment_11266

You worded this very well, Christine. I like your designation of how mixing layouts (such as org + list) was essential for "creative and structured thinking"…which I had separately referred to as representing both "wide and dense" information. This capability was also essential to my usage of MM…and feels like a dramatic loss without it.

Mark Mosher · October 7

1. 🤓 Mindmiester User Since 2009: Thoughts On A Path to Reward Mastery and Retain Power Users

I've been using Mindmeister as my primary mind mapping tool since 2009 😲. Mindmeister and Meistertask are my daily drivers for brainstorming, note-taking, project planning, project management, and personal productivity. I've created countless mind maps and practically live in Meistertask's Agenda view.

I have some detailed thoughts on this “New Editor”, along with a proposal at the bottom of this post to introduce an "Advanced Mode," for Pro Subscribers, allowing you to cater to both new users and power users.

2. 👎 Challenge: New Editor is Heading in the Wrong Direction

When you introduced the New Editor in 2021, it lacked many core features compared to the Legacy Editor. I was assuming Meister would quickly iterate to bring the New Editor to parity with the Legacy Editor.

Instead it has been a good number of years and many features have not been incorporated. The latest release suggests that rather than iterating to stay competitive with your own Legacy Editor — let alone the market — you're now taking a step further in the wrong direction by removing features from an already stripped-down editor.

While the New Editor has a more modern fresh look, and I do use it, I STILL often return to the Legacy Editor. I also find myself using competitor products more and more.

3. 💙 Legacy Editor: Features That Keep Me Coming Back

The amazing "Wunder" system for Images, Video, and Tasks. You predated AI with this incredible ability to search and return assets using branch text as context. Way ahead of its time.
Customizable Themes.
Right Click > Tools to Alphabetize (to sort siblings) and Add Numbers (to number siblings, also in Xmind).
A superior presentation mode using sections around branches. Again, way ahead of its time and an approach adopted by Miro and recently, Apple Freeform.
A superior Boundary UX.
A more interactive History UX with visual feedback.
Multiple symbols on a branch (along with % Complete) for better "tag" metaphor and filtering.
Lightweight task management capabilities without dependency on Meistertask.
1. Smart % Complete toggle states in 1/4 turns.
2. Ability to add % Complete + have a symbol on the branch.
3. Due dates.
4. Task assignment to non-account users.
A much faster drag-and-drop Meistertask integration with less menu diving for use cases where there is one Meistertask project per map.
Larger, more readable controls in the sidebar

This is a partial list.

4. 🦾 Feature Usage Matters, But So Does Quality of Life and User Impact

My guess is that one reason some of these Legacy features haven't been incorporated into the New Editor is because you're assessing engineering priority based on feature usage percentage within the user base. This line of thinking might go: "Our analytics show that feature 'x' isn't used by a significant percentage of users, so let's not add it back to the New Editor." Or, "Let's remove this feature from the new editor."

Using only this logic is akin to saying, "We noticed not many people use the airbag in our car, so we're removing it."

5. 😕 Reducing Features Risks Alienating Power Users and Hurting Recommendations

For example, let's say only 9% of users take advantage of customizable node layouts, so you decide to remove the feature (as you just did). However, what if that 9% consists of hardcore power users who have been loyal for years and have created hundreds of maps using this feature?

These are the same users who actively recommend Meister products to their friends, colleagues, companies, and students. They may not be as included as recommended by Mindmeister. This might also impact customer retention as people may exit to switch to a competitor.

6. ⚖️ Balancing Simplicity with Customer Retention

It seems you're simplifying to attract new users, speed up onboarding, and reduce development costs.

That's understandable, but why do this at the expense of losing customers who've come to rely on you, or customers who want to grow with the product?

As marketing guru Seth Godin points out, it's far costlier to acquire a new customer than to retain an existing one and encourage them to upgrade.

7. 🛫 More Runway, Rewarding Mastery, and Retaining Power Users

I'm currently subscribed to the PRO bundle, which includes both Mindmeister and Meistertask. However, I'm primarily using it for Meistertask's PRO features. If these weren't bundled, I'd hesitate to pay for Mindmeister Pro separately.

That said, if I were considering Mindmeister as a standalone product, I'd be more inclined to upgrade to Pro if I saw clear efforts to improve and compete with both your Legacy Editor and market leaders.

To Seth Godin’s point, the Pro tier could boost revenue and attract users seeking a tool with long-term potential. Moreover, it's an effective strategy for enhancing customer retention.

With the stripped-down New Editor, users are more likely to "run out of runway" as they gain mastery and are inclined to have to switch to a competitor.

8. 🚀 Proposal: Add Missing Features from Legacy and Advanced Features Into a More “Pro” PRO Tier

A more effective strategy would be to provide a core set of features for all users, while offering an upgrade path to advanced features in a Pro tear with a much bigger value proposition than the current Pro offering. This approach would reward mastery and help retain experienced users, while hiding complexities from new users.

I suggest implementing an "Advanced Mode" or "Power User Mode," which would activate when users upgrade to Pro.

This tier would be the focus for iterating and bringing the New Editor closer to parity with Legacy features, as well as introducing innovative additions to make Mindmeister even more competitive in the crowded Mind Mapping market.

9. 🍻 Cheers

I offer these thoughts in the spirit of enhancing the product, user experience, and feature set for all Mindmeister users.

Here's to more runway for everyone! 🛫.

Richard Vitaris · October 7

I could not agree with @Mark Mosher more strongly and thank him for taking the time to draft his detailed response and proposal.

MindMeister needs to pay serious attention to what Mark is saying and to the concerns of its power users. Your competitors, especially XMind, have their act together while MindMeister takes one or two steps backward for every step forward.

Your iOS product is a disaster and now you are destroying your new editor. If you don't begin fixing these serious problems, your loyal users will give up on you. I considered leaving but ultimately renewed. If I don't see things moving in the right direction, I won't renew again.

Artur Mirecki · October 7

The last update is horrible. The Insert key doesn't work, and adding new topics using only a mouse? Are you for real? Just restore the previous version. For me, adding more functionality serves only one purpose: to justify to users the decision to increase prices. Meistertask approach ?

Here you have mail from meister.co (Sep 12th):

"

Updates to your MeisterTask subscription

Hi Artur,

Over the past few months, our team has been diligently working to enhance your product experience. To continue to provide you with a top-tier product and service, we’re making adjustments to our pricing structure.

"

Really?

Jorge Carrasquel · October 7

MindMeister is an application that I love. In fact, it is vital for me. However, as I see in the comments, the recent changes have made the application quite difficult to use. One of the wonders of the application was the shortcuts, which have now become unmanageable. Having to use the mouse to open a dialog box to insert notes is terrible. Worse still, there are now two separate commands to attach a link or upload a file. Previously, both actions could be done with a single command, which was wonderful. Please, I prefer the application as it worked a year ago. It was perfect

Gui. C. · October 8

I'm anxious to hear from @Mark Jack

CJ Forse · October 8

Hey, @Mark Jack, and team! Thank you for having an awesome tool.

Can y'all let us know two things:

Do you plan to return the org chart + list mixed layout styles feature?
If so, will it be within the next two weeks?

I hate for this to come off as a lame, disgruntled customer threat, but if this feature doesn't return soon, I'll have to move my company to another tool.

Unfortunately, the mixed layouts are essential.

Thanks, all. I really appreciate all your hard work. I've been gushing over MindMeister for over a year.

However, I'll be moving us off of MindMeister next week if I don't hear back. 😪

If anyone reading this has a good recommendation, please let me know. We're currently looking at Miro.

Oliver Wich · October 8

I have been using Meister for 6+ years with up to 100 users in my team. I am still the biggest Fan and Meister does an amazing job, BUT some changes (like this one) are absolutely incomprehensible for me.

Agreeing with everything said above. We didn't get any information about upcoming Updates and were not asked if these Updates make sense… In German we call that "verschlimmbessern". It means "to make something worse in order to improve it"😥

I think the thoughts behind the update are good - make things faster and easier!! Love That, but faster doesn't mean to delete features. A light Version can be fast, but when i "have time" and want the full potential, it should be available and not completely deleted.

Question: Why don't you build a switch between a "light mode" for new users and a "pro mode" with all the functionality for experienced users?

By the way: The new focus-mode update doesn't make any sense at all. The Items that are faded out are so tiny that there is literaly no difference between normal mode and focus mode 😂

Nima Shokouhfar · October 8

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11329#Comment_11329

I agree with this point 100%:

vbnetCopy codeLet's say only 9% of users take advantage of customizable node layouts, so you decide to remove the feature (as you just did). However, what if that 9% consists of hardcore power users who have been loyal for years and have created hundreds of maps using this feature?

Indeed, I consider myself a power user who relies on advanced features. None of my students use the advanced tools on MindMeister by themselves, but they all benefit from the mind maps I create. So, I believe @Mark Mosher 's point is completely valid.

Mark Jack · October 8

Hey everyone! Thanks so much for all these comments. We’re seeing them and they’re informing our upcoming iterations in MindMeister. A couple of notes on specific topics:

Ability to mix the org chart and list layouts in a map. We're working on bringing that functionality back by the end of the week. Watch this space!
Notifications about product updates. Please ensure you’re subscribed to MindMeister newsletters to keep up with the latest developments.

Overall, we’re aiming to create a product that is straightforward for anyone to use, and super easy to get started. At times, finding the balance between supporting more advanced use cases and retaining that straightforward feel is challenging, but we’ll continue to listen to users like you all as we map out and understand those trade-offs.

Thanks for your patience and continued support.

■---▷ ● ! · October 8

This function is indispensable in my work. Thanks, @Mark Jack

Org & List Map.jpg

@Mark Jack

Jason Vidmar · October 8

Thanks for the update on this @Mark Jack! No doubt it is difficult to strike the right balance between increasing initial ease of use to attract new users to the product while continuing to satisfy the long-time / power users. But, it is comforting to know that the MM team is seeing the feedback and looking to make some adjustments (some more near-term, and some perhaps more planning-oriented). As others have mentioned, bringing back support for mixed layouts with org/list will be a huge corrective step for many. I do really like the ideas expressed by @Mark Mosher and @Oliver Wich and others regarding two separate modes, e.g., basic and advanced/pro, that could be used to appeal to both sets of users.

Nima Shokouhfar · October 8


    
        https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11349#Comment_11349

To be honest, I use MindMeister heavily every day and have hundreds of maps. I really like the new toolbar and interface compared to the previous one. The ease of access to tools has improved a lot, which I truly appreciate. The only issue I have is that Ctrl+F isn't working, and it drives me crazy. I think it would be a quick fix for you guys, though.

Anyway, great job to the team! Keep up the good work.

Unknown · October 8

This content has been removed.

Nima Shokouhfar · October 9

Overall, I like your new toolbar much better, especially now that I've gotten used to it. Please don't change it. The previous menu felt like navigating a maze, especially when it came to things like attachments. Now, you can access the same features with fewer clicks, reducing mental friction when doing tasks. While the UI muscle memory needs to be retrained, I definitely prefer this version.

Another thing I appreciate is how you've separated the stylings in the new UI. In the previous version, there were too many elements crammed into one page, making it difficult to locate things. As a UX designer, I prefer this new approach—it's much simpler and more straightforward.

The image control is much more intuitive now. Previously, you had to know exactly where to click to edit images, but now there's a dedicated button for it, making the process much more straightforward. You no longer need to be a power user to replace, position, or delete an image in your nodes. To be honest, it took me months in the previous UI to figure out how to manage images effectively. You've definitely earned points for this improvement!

Among all the features you've added, the select box positioning of emojis is by far my favorite. In previous versions, this was absolutely frustrating and irrelevant.

theo west · October 9

Happy to hear that @Mark Jack ! 😌

Cornelia Patscheider_is_Out-of-office · October 9

Hi everyone,

thank you @Mark Jack , for collecting all the feedback so far and keeping us in the loop of what's happening next! Mark has kept me internally in the loop as well, and we decided that going forward, I will keep everyone in this thread updated.

I also want to thank the other Mark, @Mark Mosher, for his detailed and well thought out feedback. Very much appreciated! It is interesting to hear the perspective of a long-standing MindMeister users. Like Mark Jack said, it is indeed difficult to cater to new users and very advanced users at times.

Thank you @Nima Shokouhfar for the positive feedback. That's great to hear that you like the new toolbars and interface! I could actually reproduce the issue with Ctrl+F and have forwarded the issue to the responsible team at Meister, so that they can further look into this.

Karl Ortenburg · October 9

https://community.meister.co/discussion/comment/11214#Comment_11214

I got it, Mark, thanks. Appreciated!